Commons:Translators' noticeboard

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Translators' noticeboard

This is a noticeboard for all matters regarding translation of pages, and a meeting place for the translation administrators. Useful links: Documentation for the translation extension, Tutorial for translators. See also the sisterpage m:Meta talk:Babylon. The backlog is at Special:PageTranslation.

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please confirm

Latest comment: 3 months ago22 comments7 people in discussion

I have done some migration work on Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/i18n (feedback & help is welcome), and I feel that a translationAdmin has to confirm my changes, before I can adopt the language variants. best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 18:57, 20 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

I am not someone who has an extensive knowledge of templates, so probably @Tacsipacsi might be able to deal with this _signed,Aafi ^(talk) 07:54, 21 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

I feel confident with templates. It's only about the embedding of templates in the translation system and maybe how to extract the two new error texts to separate parameters. --Herzi Pinki (talk) 10:53, 21 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

thx OifigeachWMIE, something is missing. Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/i18n: Translate this page; This page contains changes which are not marked for translation. How can I mark them for translation / transfer the changes in Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/i18n to Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/i18n/en etc.? best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 11:07, 27 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Herzi Pinki, they unfortunately responded in a wrong thread ;) I have marked the changes for translation. Let me know in case this breaks anything. Marking this as

Done from here. _signed,Aafi ^(talk) 15:03, 27 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

Better. And now I need help, not just support. The translated stuff should call {{Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/Id|$1|2=|3=}} unconditionally, but it doesn't. What is wrong here? best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 18:25, 27 August 2025 (UTC) @Aafi: as requested --Herzi Pinki (talk) 18:26, 27 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Jarekt, would you be able to look at this? ─ Aafī on Mobile ^{^(talk)} 18:56, 27 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

I’m not sure how the template works but if you wanted to call {{Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/Id|$1|2=|3=}} unconditionally, then you don’t need the if-statement. The current setup means that it is doing “If the result of the Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/Id is X, then do Y”, since both X and Y is not specified, it is not doing anything. Tvpuppy (talk) 01:14, 28 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

Please double check the templates above in Category:Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls -- ato (talk) 18:50, 28 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

was away for the we, will take care. I'm looking for missing }}? --Herzi Pinki (talk) 12:06, 31 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

after a lot of unsuccessful trials, I again need help: @Aafi: to

check my changes
commit my changes

I'm going with {{<tvar name="2x">Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/Id|{{{1|}}}</tvar>|2=Id missing|3=needs migration to HERIS-ID}} in Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/i18n. The purpose is to have symmetric curly braces (I spent hours to find the cause of the asymmetry). The code in the language specific stuff than is: ... {{$2|2=Id missing!|3=migration to HERIS-ID needed}} ..., which should expand to {{Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/Id|{{{1|}}}|2=Id missing!|3=migration to HERIS-ID needed}} - please check! If ok, please commit my changes. Sorry that I broke the code for the whole weekend. best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 18:29, 31 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Herzi Pinki, I can't seriously help in checking if the changes are right (I hardly have novice knowledege of templates) but if someone with good knowledge of templates says that it's okay to go, I will be glad to mark the page for translation. _signed,Aafi ^(talk) 09:55, 1 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Mdaniels5757, would you probably help here? :) _signed,Aafi ^(talk) 09:58, 1 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Aafi @Herzi Pinki Looks good to me,

Done —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 15:18, 1 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Mdaniels5757: thanks a lot. Looks ok. best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 20:14, 1 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

translation to ar is missing, I get confused when I have open and closed stuff with rtl direction. --Herzi Pinki (talk) 20:16, 1 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sorry for not responding earlier (I didn’t have time when I got pinged, and then forgot about the ping). Unfortunately the chosen solution doesn’t work in all languages, for example it doesn’t work in my native language Hungarian.

The problem is that you split up the phrase with HERIS-ID 123456, ObjektID 12345 arbitrarily. The word with is the preposition of HERIS-ID and ObjektID – in English and German. However, other languages use other ways to express the grammatical connection, e.g. Hungarian uses agglutination (HERIS-ID-ja 123456, ObjektID-ja 12345) and Slavic languages like Slovak use inflection. Both of these would require changing the words HERIS-ID and ObjektID, which is impossible with the current setup. (Probably there are non-European languages that work yet differently, although I don’t have examples off the top of my head.)

A better solution would be:

putting all the logic on Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/i18n, stopping using Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/Id;
using {{Tmpl}} to move the logic out of the translation unit (while still keeping it on the same page);
and making all three cases (ObjektID, HERIS-ID, HERIS-ID + ObjektID) separate translation units, in which the IDs themselves are hidden in variables, but the names aren’t.

Tacsipacsi (talk) 10:35, 8 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Herzi Pinki: FYI, if you haven't seen this yet. _signed,Aafi ^(talk) 16:37, 8 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

thanks Aafi --Herzi Pinki (talk) 18:50, 8 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

the overall problem for me was that once the translation stuff has been applied to this template, it was really hard to modify the content of the template (except for minor text changes), especially without breaking anything and with so many transclusions. I just wanted to expand the functionality of my template and now I have to deal with the translation stuff.
the complexity arises from

the template does a legacy migration accepting old ObjektIDs and new WD-IDs as arguments as well, and has to differ correctly. No clear cut possible at the moment.
the values of the Ids shown in the template depend on existence of WD-properties.
generated links for supporting our workflows are created differently depending on parameter constellation.

Is there a way to develop your ideas Tacsipacsi in a copy of Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/i18n without the need to duplicate the whole template tree?
~~sorry, did not get your 3rd point, what are separate translation units;~~ but the rest?
- how do I switch between the three cases without duplicating the logic (now in Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/Id)?
- is there really a need for HERIS-ID + ObjektID (and how?), or wouldn't it be possible to concat both (assuming that the comma as concatenation is ok in all languages, or have a separate translation unit for the concatenation string. How does concatenation work in rtl languages?). Otherwise I have to insert the ID values into that compound translation unit, don't know how (using {{Str rep}}?).
- @separate translation units (like this in {{Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/i18n}}?):

| lang = {{TRANSLATIONLANGUAGE}}
| 1    = {{{1|}}}
| 2    = <translate><!--T:2--> Upload more media to this category</translate>
| 3    = <translate><!--T:3--> Id missing</translate>
| 4    = <translate><!--T:4--> needs migration to HERIS-ID</translate>
| 5    = <translate><!--T:5--> HERIS-ID<!--this is the immutable literal name of an id, do not translate. You can add language specific inflection, prefix and/or suffix--></translate>
| 6    = <translate><!--T:6--> ObjektID<!--this is the immutable literal name of an id, do not translate. You can add language specific inflection, prefix and/or suffix--></translate>
| 7    = <translate><!--T:7--> HERIS-ID + ObjektID</translate> ?? or
| 7    = <translate><!--T:7--> HERIS-ID val1, ObjektID val2<!--do not change val1 and val2 strings!--></translate> ??

can you provide a skeleton where I can then put my logic?
I could change the interface of Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/Id to return a slash separated list of id-values I can strip using {{ParmPart}} / #titleparts.

maybe it's better to make a clean rewrite from scratch, and apply the translation stuff again afterwards (by an expert). The current template seems to be bogus anyhow.

--Herzi Pinki (talk) 18:50, 8 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Herzi Pinki: I can only say what a separate translation unit means. In the case above, T2, T3, T4 and the rest are each a separate unit. Each string that you translate separately in the translation system is a different and separate unit. _signed,Aafi ^(talk) 19:17, 8 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Is there a way to develop your ideas Tacsipacsi in a copy of Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/i18n without the need to duplicate the whole template tree? I’m not sure what “duplicating the whole template tree” means, but I don’t think any page other than Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/i18n needs to be changed, so you could copy just that to a sandbox page.

how do I switch between the three cases without duplicating the logic (now in Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/Id)? A bit of duplication (one way or the other) is unavoidable, but most of the duplication can be avoided by simply not using Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/Id – with that, you don’t duplicate the logic, but simply move it.

is there really a need for HERIS-ID + ObjektID (and how?), or wouldn't it be possible to concat both (assuming that the comma as concatenation is ok in all languages, or have a separate translation unit for the concatenation string. How does concatenation work in rtl languages?). Exactly that’s the problem: concatenation works differently in different languages. Not only RTL languages, but also other languages, most notably Chinese and Japanese, which use a full-width comma (、) and no space after it. And even in languages that do use the same punctuation as English and German, “and” (or some variant) may read more naturally than a comma. Using three separate messages allows for more natural translation, at a relatively small cost (there are already two and a half branches, that’d increase to three).

Otherwise I have to insert the ID values into that compound translation unit, don't know how (using {{Str rep}}?). That’s what translation variables (<tvar>) are for.

I could change the interface of Template:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/Id to return a slash separated list of id-values I can strip using {{ParmPart}} / #titleparts. As I wrote, I think it’s best to just leave out that subtemplate.

can you provide a skeleton where I can then put my logic? Well, it turned out to be more of a complete solution than a skeleton. 🙂

<languages />
<onlyinclude>{{Denkmalgeschütztes Objekt Österreich/layout
| text = {{tmpl
  |0=<translate><!--T:1--> This {{#if:{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|{{ns:14}}|1}}|category|media}} shows the protected monument with $2 in Austria.</translate>
  |2={{#ifeq:{{Str left|{{{1|}}}|1}}|Q
    |{{#if:{{Data |item={{{1|}}} |property=P2951 |displayformat=raw}}
      |<translate>{{#if:{{Data |item={{{1|}}} |property=P9154 |displayformat=raw}}|HERIS-ID {{Data |item={{{1|}}} |property=P9154 |displayformat=raw}}|missing HERIS-ID}}, <small>ObjektID <span class="plainlinks">[https://denkmalliste.toolforge.org/index.php?action=EinzelID&ID={{Data |item={{{1|}}} |property=P2951 |displayformat=raw}} {{Data |item={{{1|}}} |property=P2951 |displayformat=raw}}]</span></small></translate>
      |<translate>{{#if:{{Data |item={{{1|}}} |property=P9154 |displayformat=raw}}|HERIS-ID {{Data |item={{{1|}}} |property=P9154 |displayformat=raw}}|missing HERIS-ID}}</translate>
      }}<!--

    legacy ObjektID: -->
    |{{#if:{{{1|}}}
      |<translate>ObjektID <span class="plainlinks">[https://denkmalliste.toolforge.org/index.php?action=EinzelID&ID={{{1}}} {{{1}}}]</span> <small>(needs migration to HERIS-ID)</small></translate>
      |<translate>missing ID</translate>
      }}
    }}
  }}
| lang = {{TRANSLATIONLANGUAGE}}
| 1    = {{{1|}}}
| 2    = <translate><!--T:2--> Upload more media to this category</translate>
}}</onlyinclude>
{{translated tag|marker}}

(I don’t see the <tvar>s in the rendered code for some reason, please copy the source code). I did some changes in addition to the translation markup:

Used missing ID / missing HERIS-ID instead of <Id missing!> – it reads more naturally, and avoids problems, should the translation happen to be a valid HTML/XML tag.
Used <small> instead of <span style="font-size:smaller"> to avoid overwhelming translators with syntax. I also think that <small> is semantically correct here. Moved the plainlinks class in the translation variable, so that translators don’t even see it (although I’m not sure if it’s needed at all; the old version didn’t use to have it).
Moved the “needs migration” message from a tooltip to a parenthesized note. This makes translation easier (no headaches with markup appearing in an HTML attribute), and avoids accessibility issues (tooltips are invisible on touchscreen devices such are smartphones).

The $2 in the main translation unit will appear on the translation interface as if it was a regular <tvar>, but {{Tmpl}} allows including more complex syntax.

Note that the translation interface shows message documentation (in the right column), what you wrote in HTML comments above should be added there (except for the comment about val1 and val2, which doesn’t need to be added anywhere – since they are translation variables, translators are expected to know how to handle them). —Tacsipacsi (talk) 12:59, 9 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Have I done it correctly?

Latest comment: 2 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hei hei! I've been wanting to lift the informational value of Copyright rules by territory/Norway for a while, and although not my initial goal, I noticed that some of the large blocks of lists and whatnot for translation could be split into multiple segments. I've tried to adhere to the mediawiki guide appended to the editor, but I would like for someone to confirm whether or not my initial changes look correctly formatted, or whether or not it's worth splitting these chunks and lists at all. (As a user interface and message translator on other projects and translatewiki, I much prefer to work with isolated bits of text compared to few behemoths, but I am unfamiliar with the norm on this project – and have little experience with the translation markup itself. Hoping to create as little work for the admins as possible, while still lifting the page!) EdoAug (talk) 03:17, 30 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Pages not marked for translation

Latest comment: 1 month ago8 comments3 people in discussion

Could somebody please mark the following pages for translation: Help:Image-Annotator, Commons:File renaming, ~~Commons:Own work~~, Help:PDF, ~~Commons:Licensing~~, Commons:Rotation, Commons:Simple media reuse guide. This is so that Category:Commons help is not so cluttered & clogged.

Also could these headers please be marked for translation: ~~Commons:File requests/header~~, Template:Village pump/Copyright/Header, Template:Village pump/Proposals/Header, Template:Village pump/Technical/Header. This is so that the discussion pages are much easier to keep track of, e.g. for people who don't have the section headers in the sidebar.

Also these pages may need checking, I don't know if they have been set up properly: Commons:İletişim, Commons:الگوهای ایمیل, Викисклад:Шаблоны, Commons:דלפק_העזרה, Commons:ساهم_بأعمالك, Commons:貢獻您自己的作品, Commons:ជំហានដំបូង/បែបបទផ្ទុកឡើង.
Thank you, Prototyperspective (talk) 17:35, 17 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

And also ~~Commons:VicuñaUploader~~, ~~Commons:Sunflower~~, ~~Commons:Pattypan~~, ~~Commons:Commonist~~, ~~Commons:Command-line upload~~, Commons:ComeOn!, and ~~Commons:Chunked uploads~~ please to unclog Category:Commons upload. Prototyperspective (talk) 22:28, 17 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

And also ~~Template:YouTube CC-BY/i18n~~ ... the system is inherently dysfunctional. Taylor 49 (talk) 20:11, 28 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

~~Commons:Translators' noticeboard/header~~ The backlog is at Special:PageTranslation. Taylor 49 (talk) 19:22, 1 January 2026 (UTC)Reply

Could somebody please mark the pages linked above for translation? Prototyperspective (talk) 17:53, 3 January 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Prototyperspective: Some were done, and I have done the pending ones. Commons:ComeOn! is not currently in translation. Let me know if there is anything else that I can help with. _signed,Aafi ^(talk) 06:02, 4 January 2026 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, most of the links still haven't been marked for translation as far as I can see...at least those headers. Prototyperspective (talk) 09:40, 4 January 2026 (UTC)Reply

Can the remaining pages please also be marked for translation? If there's something I can do to help speed this up, please let me know, thanks. Prototyperspective (talk) 17:52, 14 January 2026 (UTC)Reply